Page 1 of 9 
 
Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn 
December 11, 1980 
Cassette 2, Side 1 
 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  00:02 
Okay, let's see. Jeanne Biehn interviewed by Susan Ehlers for Washington Women's Heritage 
Project, December 11, 1980. Tape two, side one.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  00:16 
Okay, let's see, we were talking about visiting on-- 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  00:21 
Yeah, Sunday.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  00:22 
--Sunday. 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  00:24 
And of course, eating was their great pastime. Everybody was a gourmet cook, and holidays or 
sp-- and special occasions, Easter, Christmas, that sort of thing. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  00:43 
Remember what your-- 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  00:52 
Okay. What was I going to say? About-- 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  00:56 
Oh, or visiting.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  00:58 
Well, it was something a little bit more on... Oh, do you remember anything particular about 
funeral customs [crosstalk]?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  01:10 
Oh, God, it was barbaric, absolutely barbaric. The first funeral I really remember was my 
paternal grandfather, and he was an old man when he-- in my opinion, I have no idea what how 
Page 2 of 9 
 
old he was, but we looked at them then as old people. He died, and they actually laid in state for 
three days in the home, in the parlor, as they call it, with the candles and the flowers. And people 
brought food. The immediate family, I used to think they never undressed, because they were 
always there sitting next to the casket in their best [?clothes?]. The farm went on. All the 
neighbors came in and did all the chores as they [inaudible], and the family stayed in the parlor. 
I, honestly, I can remember that thinking they must never take their clothes off, because you 
went not once to pay your respects, but maybe twice, and there was food in that kitchen like you 
could not believe. So you went in, paid your respects, knelt at this kneeler in front of casket and 
said prayers, and then we immediately went to the kitchen and had, like-- was like a New York 
automatic. I mean, it had-- they had everything, pots and vats of food on the stove, desserts, and 
it would just-- it was incredible, the desserts. And you had to eat something. And then there was 
an anniversary of that death, and everyone would go to church. You had always an excuse to go 
to church. I mean, church was a real big thing, and so that you went to church on the anniversary 
of that death [inaudible]. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  03:20 
Every year, or just for the first year? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  03:22 
For the first year, probably, and then the family would go. And stained glass windows in church 
were all beloved to somebody, you know, and real stained glass. And the cemetery, everybody 
went to the funeral, everybody went to the cemetery, and the tombstones were all there. I went 
on my last visit home and saw my father's. I remember the whole thing very vividly. But, you 
know, this was a great loss, not to just the immediate family, the whole community. And they 
took care of their old people beautifully. Mothers and fathers came back to their children to live 
when they no-- when they retired, so to speak, or passed the farm on to the boy. And they all 
raised big families for a lot of reasons. Good Catholic background, plus it was help they did not 
have to hire in the crop seasons. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  04:22 
Just feed [laughs].  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  04:23 
Yeah, just feed, you know? And that really was basically true. And then during harvest, all these-
- I can remember working in the harvest with when I went to stay with my grandmother, and all 
the men from, say, five farms harvested one man, and that was another big cookout. Man, these 
ladies started cooking in the morning and didn't quit all day long. Then all these five farmers 
would clean up, say, Joe Blow's farm, then they'd move to Joe George's farm and do the same 
thing there. And it was a real community project. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  04:59 
Oh, you mentioned about passing the farm on, um... 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  05:05 
Oh, it was a heritage to take dad's farm on.  
 
Page 3 of 9 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  05:08 
Well, with regard to your brother, besides the expectation that your father-- that your brother 
would be sports-minded or whatnot, even though it turned out to be bookish, or do you feel there 
was any other differences between the expectations that were [crosstalk]? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  05:23 
Yes, my father was very, very crushed when my brother would not-- he kept saying how I built 
this store, and it will someday be all of yours. You know, it was great-- as much as he wanted us 
to have an education, and as much as he pushed us into doing things, your own thing, of course, 
when I shot the whole family down with going in the stewardess service, but my father was 
devastated when my brother did not want the store. He said, "No." He-- well, number one, he 
was-- he went off to World War II, and that was, oh, my mother hit the wailing wall 100 miles an 
hour on that one. And isn't it funny? As you look back, you recall scenes. And when my brother 
went off, I thought, "God Almighty, this is it," you know, "this is the end of it for Mother." And 
Mother worried him through that.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  06:25 
Did he volunteer or was he drafted?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  06:27 
He volunteered in the Navy. That added insult to injury. There were two that wasn't going, my 
brother and the man who came to get him, according to my mom. Then, of course, after having-- 
then he was a navigator. And then that was, you know, "If God had wanted you to have wing, 
he'd have given them to you." This was their attitude. They just-- Mother was a great passenger, 
as long she had one foot on the ground. And very untimely on my part, my brother had just come 
out of the war when I graduated from high school, and I had told my mother and dad, this is 
something I wanted to do, stewardess service, and they just poo-pooed it. And when I finally quit 
college after two years and said, "That's all I need, I'm going to do it." Then we have scene two 
of this large life drama. And my father said, "Well, I know you want to do it, and I'm sure it's 
something you wanted to do, but do you realize what you're going to put your mother through?" 
And I said, "I'm sure it's going to be another scene," but it was amazing now, as I start to think, 
how well they took it, even though they said, "You're sure? You could get maimed..." I, God, 
that was a word I hated.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  07:41 
They were afraid those wings were going to fall off [crosstalk].  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  07:41 
Oh yes, and I wasn't going to get killed, just maimed. I can remember that word so vividly, "get 
maimed." And they were very delighted, because I think I was probably the only second girl in 
this entire town that went out to do this and did it. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  08:04 
You mean, to be a stewardess, particular to that-- 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  08:08 
Page 4 of 9 
 
Well, number one, to go to college--  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  08:09 
--or just [crosstalk], oh. 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  08:10 
--and then number two, to become a stewardess, which was, you know, unknown. They just 
didn't like anything they couldn't put their finger on. And yet, as they look back now in the trans-
- in transpiring from that country to this country, in moving ahead of the times, my father moved 
right along, he just-- progress was his important-- he just felt anything was an improvement over 
what he did, and he was willing to accept it. Mother hung on to sort of a lot of the old traditions 
and customs. I think maybe she thought it... Yet she really kept saying, "You'll never go 
anywhere here." The old Greeley, "Go West." Mother always just said there's really not much 
here opportunity-wise. And then, of course, after my brother didn't want the business and my 
father said, "Well, it could be all yours," and, "You can have it," and I didn't want it, too, and my 
sister was just totally no good in it, my father decided to sell. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  09:12 
What did your brother eventually get into?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  09:14 
Insurance actuary.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  09:15 
Okay, on school, was there any particular...? The nuns, I take it, were r-- fairly strict [crosstalk]?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  09:25 
Oh, my God, yes. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  09:27 
How did they deal with punishing kids if they went awry? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  09:34 
Oh, well, number one, they didn't have a lot of discipline problems because number-- you just 
did not cross your parents. And, my God, you didn't cross anybody of the cloth. I mean, the nuns 
were revered, and if they said, "That will do," that was a stern cross. I mean, discipline was no 
problem. Really, I don't remember discipline problems. I can remember talking a lot, and that 
was probably my biggest flaw. And I can remember having to go into the coat closet until I-- 
because I was disturbing the class. So that would be the... My father never spanked. Mother-- I 
don't really remember being spanked. As we got older, we were denied. If I was late on a date, I 
couldn't go out. I was grounded. I was grounded, and you just accepted it. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  10:45 
Okay. Do you remember any of the nuns would stand out, that [crosstalk]? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  10:49 
Page 5 of 9 
 
Oh, my God, yes, the first grade nun. Oh, she was a beautiful, beautiful woman who loved to eat, 
had a beautiful face, and she always came to the store to weigh herself on Daddy's meat scale, 
and she would never let anybody know, and she was full of the dickens. She really was. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  11:08 
Was she big? [Laughs.]  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  11:10 
Yeah, she was a plump lady. But looking back, what else did she have? She-- I can remember 
her very beautiful, warm, fun face, and she had first and second grade.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  11:26 
Remember what her name was?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  11:27 
Sister... I'm just-- I was just thinking, Sister... Father Carlin was the priest in Marshall, and 
Father Pilgrim was the priest in Ghent. My mother, when she came to this country, in order to 
learn the language, worked for Father Carlin. And after-- he married Mother and Daddy in 
Marshall, and they moved again, and then finally got their own priest. Father Carlin used to 
come and visit us, and he had a big [?stoker?] of a cigar and he and Daddy drank whiskey out of 
a small glass. I can remember that so vividly and I always used to think how neat we were and 
how lucky we were that the priest actually came to our house to visit, and he didn't call on 
everybody, in particular, because he came from Marshall and Mother worked for him. And 
Mother-- he was very fond of Mother and vice versa, because he and his s-- his sister was his 
housekeeper, and his sister taught my mother all the language and all the customs for the United 
States. And it was just a real kind of a love affair. It was family, because they-- everybody 
always thought they [?don't have any?] family. So we were their family. And I remember my 
piano teacher, and today, if you put me in a room with a washing machine and a piano, I couldn't 
tell you the difference, but that was Mother's way of having me get some culture. And I can 
remember this nun -- I don't remember her name either -- and I -- I can find out for you the other 
nun's name -- but she always smelled like coffee, and she was a surly, old, grouchy looking nun, 
and they all wore those big white bibs. And I can remember thinking, I wonder, how come she 
smells like coffee. and there aren't coffee stains on that. And in-- I was obviously looking for any 
kind of a reason or excuse not to have to practice. And I-- we didn't have a piano at home, God 
forbid. It was enough just to get me the lessons. Was just a total loss. Total loss. I remember her, 
and I remember delivering groceries to the convent, and the nuns always gave us a holy card 
with our name on it. And your rewards for doing something extra special in school were holy 
cards. I've got batches of those that I still have. But that-- we always came trucking home with a 
holy card.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  14:08 
Well, as I was raised Catholic, I know what you mean by holy card, but perhaps you'd better 
explain for the tape what that is. 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  14:14 
Page 6 of 9 
 
Oh, this was some phrase taken out of the Bible with, in those days, Saint Christopher. You 
always had a Saint Christopher medal. You didn't dare drive a new car out of the garage without 
a Saint Christopher medal in it. And there were saints for things that you were losing. And there 
were a lot of Sacred Heart medals. You remember the Sacred Heart medals that we wore, and the 
scapular. Lord, you could be laden down with medals. And there were... Well, the girls always 
got Blessed Virgin pictures and Christ Child pictures, and they really had to do with the Bible 
and and they were used as markers in our missals when we went to church on Sunday. And 
everybody had a family pew, and you sat in the pew and you paid rent or, like, dues, and nobody 
sat in your pew. And the only time you sat in somebody else's pew was at a wedding because 
you had to sit on one side or the other. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  15:15 
Okay, in times of trouble, it seems like-- it sounded like everybody pitched in--  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  15:20 
Oh! 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  15:20 
--talking about not just the immediate family or anything like [?that?]. 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  15:23 
Mm-mm, everybody did. And it was kind of a group effort. When somebody got the measles, 
everybody got the measles, and the mothers and fathers always said, "Well, God, you know, let 
the measles." They didn't believe in quarantine. I mean, if somebody got the measles, everybody 
got the measles and you got it over with. I don't-- I'd hate to think what they did in a plague, but 
you just, you know, everybody got chicken pox. It was just part of growing up. You only went to 
the doctor in dire need, because there was only one doctor in the whole community. There was 
only one dentist in the whole community. Ladies-- I was born in the hospital because my mother 
had a miscarriage before and after me. That has to say something from my background. Women 
didn't go to the hospital to have babies. Because I can remember Mother having miscarried at 
home. Of course, that's not unusual, but people who went to the hospital had a broken leg from 
falling off a tractor or something. The hospital was a place that you were very quiet in, and it's 
like the local library at school, you just-- was very quiet and when somebody was in the hospital, 
it was really awful, and the nearest... We didn't have any clinics, so to speak. It was typical small 
town. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  17:03 
Well, were your brother and sister born in a hospital? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  17:06 
No, my brother was born at home, and so was my sister. Of course, in that days then, and now 
again, it was a group effort. Mother had my sister, and I can remember all these ladies bringing 
food in for my brother and myself and my dad and Mother stayed in bed. I thought that was kind 
of the [inaudible], because Mother looked fine to me, and she had a nice baby and that looked 
fine to me, and I just couldn't understand why everybody was so concerned and my mother 
couldn't get up. And...  
Page 7 of 9 
 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  17:37 
Do you know-- remember how long she stayed in bed after your sister?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  17:42 
I don't remember, but it seemed like a long, long time, a very long time. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  17:50 
Weeks?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  17:50 
A week, probably. Two weeks? Because I know-- I can remember one lady patting me on the 
head and saying -- because I went up to see-- because this lady came to visit Mother and brought 
a cake or something -- and I remember going up with her and taking her into Mother's room, and 
it smelled like baby oil in there. And Mother had this great big four poster bed. And I remember 
her patting me on the head and saying, "It's so nice you have a big girl to take care of you and the 
baby." And my sister never outgrew that nickname. She was always called the baby. Interesting, 
isn't it?  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  18:36 
You call her that? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  18:38 
Not anymore. She hates that [they laugh]. We d-- but my-- I can remember my mother saying to 
me when, like I-- when we were taking off for school, "Don't forget to take the baby's hand." 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  18:53 
Okay, when you went into high school, and this was a public school, was that in the town? Or 
what-- did you have to go...?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  19:01 
I had to go to Marshall. See, I lived in Ghent. Ghent probably, counting everybody, was about 
400 people. In the city; the surrounding farm area was [?big there?]. Oh, yeah. Now, that was a-- 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  19:16 
Was that much of a shock?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  19:17 
Yes, I shall never forget my first introduction to a public high school, because we had to take 
P.E. and everybody had to take a gang shower. And I just thought, "My God, this is the end of 
the world." That I recall.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  19:35 
You were embarrassed?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  19:36 
Page 8 of 9 
 
Oh, my God Almighty. I just thought, My Lord, this is a heathen, I mean... But we were all in it 
together, because I had grown up in this small town with several girls who went on to high 
school, and we just thought, "Holy cow!" Because Marshall now was a metropolitan area. It was 
8000 people. But that too passed and I thought it was really keen, because now you went from 
class to class, you didn't sit in the room all day, you know, in the same schoolroom. We went and 
I really, I fell into that and loved it. And yes, now I was really on my way. I was growing up.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  20:20 
Were there any classes, if you liked better than others?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  20:23 
I hated math. Oh god, I hated math. I loved English. I loved Speech and Drama, which I went on 
in college with. Home Ec was a real lark, because I was not too good in the kitchen and living 
proof, still am not, but--  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  20:42 
Did your mother try to teach you that [crosstalk]?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  20:44 
Yes, and she tried to teach me needlework, and it just was all for nought. Just was not my forte. 
Yes, it was-- and I should have learned all these needlepoint things and beautiful things that-- or 
not needlepoint, so to speak, needleworks that she did. Unfortunately, she's not able to do them 
anymore, but she has reams of that stuff at home. But Home Ec and that sort of thing, I just total 
failure. No. And math I detested. Just detested it. But my brother and sister were excellent.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  21:24 
Do you remember, particularly, any teachers that would stand out?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  21:28 
Miss Pond, my Home Ec teacher, she had a big bun in the back of her head, and she was in love 
with the math teacher, and we all just thought we were in on the real inside track. This had to be 
right out of [?photoplay?], because they used to meet in the-- we'd see him head for the teachers 
lounge and-- Mr. [?Wall?] was the math teacher and he had a funny eye and it crossed when he 
would be looking at you, and this one eye crossed. But he was, yeah, they were a real item in 
high school. We just thought-- and Mr. Olsen was the principal. And my, see, my brother had 
gone to Marshall High School, and so preceded me, and so the name... And in a small town like 
that, the name, oh, immediately I was Paul's sister, but of a different cut. Loved a good, fun 
prank, that sort of thing. I probably started on my road to hell in high school because I found that 
I loved anybody with a sense of humor, and we were always doing funny things like changing 
books in lockers and... Nothing really devastating, but just good, fun practical jokes.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  22:37 
Well, did you ever feel put down because your two sibs were the intellectual ones, and you were 
the...? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  22:45 
Page 9 of 9 
 
Probably still carry a little scar of that with me today. But no, I had my own thing. I had my own 
goals and my own dream, so to speak, that I wanted. No, I just felt there's some do-gooders in the 
world, and there got to be folks like us around to appreciate them [laughs].  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  23:06 
Okay, I know you said you would-- knew it was expected that you would go on to college, but in 
high school, did you already have this wanting to be a stewardess? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  23:17 
I wrote-- in seventh or eighth grade, we had to write, as part of an English program, the things 
we wanted to do when we grew up. And I wrote about stewardess service and modeling. I just 
thought that'd really be-- both, because they-- well, not stewardess service as much, but modeling 
because I thought, "Boy, that's really easy and they make lots of money." I thought lots of 
money. Later, I found out there wasn't so much money, but it looked like something I could 
handle easily and without a lot of effort. I didn't have that same view about stewardessing, but I 
knew that as far back as seventh grade, that's what-- some of the things, the two things I wanted 
to accomplish. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  24:14 
Well, it's about 10 after 11:00, maybe I should let this... I think this tape is-- yeah, it's pretty close 
to being over. Cut it off here.  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  24:28 
Okay. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  24:28 
Jeanne Biehn interviewed by Susan Ehlers for Washington Women's Heritage Project. End of 
tape two, side one. 
 